In 2021, while I was “preaching” about how much I appreciate the Union on the phone with one of my SAG-AFTRA reps in Chicago, he mentioned how much I sounded like an actor who lives there named Ilyssa Fradin and said that I ought to speak with her.
Both her and I have had a busy year, so it isn’t until now, in 2022 that we are talking together on the topic of Unions and acting.
Listen in. It’s a good conversation.
Transcript
Paul Cram: The views information or opinions expressed are solely those of the individuals involved as actors who are members of SAG-AFTRA and do not necessarily reflect SAG-AFTRA the primary purpose of this series is to dialogue.
Hi everyone, I’m Paul Cram. Joined today by Chicago-based actor Ilyssa Fradin.
Ilyssa Fradin: prayer to God I will never forget this when I finally got a franchised agent and I booked a gig and I got a check I fell on the floor crying because I had been working you know day jobs yeah and I’m like you’re paying me for doing something I love and so now I’m on the way opposite side where yeah you should get paid for your exposure your talent you know your time
Paul: Ilyssa Fradin is a SAG-AFTRA professional actress who has voiced hundreds of national commercials corporate videos interactive games and promos she has appeared in a variety of tv shows independent and feature films except to insert in here like if you’re a batman fan you may recognize her alyssa is a trained stage actress and vocalist who plays in the improv pool but stays in the shallow end she’s known as a smart strong actress who has warmth and a good sense of humor
Before I dive in I just want to mention too uh we start Ilissa and I start going talking and kind of diving in I when I was recording it I had a little bit of a glitch in my video so unfortunately the audio is great but unfortunately the video goes out a little a little ways in that is me bad here we go
Paul: and something I was mentioning to you right before we click record too is I feel like in Minnesota the people that I’ve kind of come into contact with don’t necessarily see actors as a labor like the job of an actor as labor can you speak to that at all as well like as far as what that looks like or why that I mean I don’t yeah take it away
Ilyssa: yeah no I think it’s I appreciate the discussion and the question because I don’t think we do it often enough I think we I know that the organization both mostly AFTRA before merger and SAG have been well first on a federal level we’re under whatever labor union rights that there are so in a as a private labor union we don’t get special treatment just because we don’t see ourselves as a trade right like people think of labor in the sense of somebody who’s a trade worker or somebody on a factory line but what it is is just a group of people collectively coming together for fair pay and fair working conditions I mean that’s really all it is is there is a group of people who want to be treated a certain way and ask management to respect that and that’s where the negotiation or the collectively bargained agreement comes from but I think in the past and what people can really take you know a benefit from is that we have a charter membership with the afl-cio as a parent organization of I don’t even know what the count is but yes it’s been declining but it’s still a group of like 12 million workers that we are a part of and so when you are a part of that hole there are benefits to that but also there’s I think for me I grew up at a time where I knew what labor was but my family wasn’t labor and as I moved into labor as an actor performer I understood oh I’m that I should support other unions and understand that and I think that actors in you know the category of workers that we have between actors broadcasters and recording artists I can only speak for actors I feel like we really think of ourselves as individuals some people think of them as independent contractors or freelancers they don’t see themselves as labor workers because it’s just I think there might be I don’t know some kind of stigma to it but really it’s an amazing thing to be a part of when you’re part of a collective and a part of a larger group that can support you and fight for your rights I know we promote it so much but it kind of misses the mark and maybe it’s because of the culture of our country today where we don’t have a very positive culture on labor but it is there’s a lot of activism especially in the economy
Paul: yeah and I can actually speak to I myself yes I think similar to you in that regard where I am an actor I’m not I can’t really speak to the broadcasting side of things in in a lot of ways but from my own experience I can speak to that sort of ice I would use the word lonely or isolated possibly from the work that I’ve done in film where it’s like working on independent film projects where their budgets are so low and feeling like this little island of like oh my gosh what am I wait a minute if something goes wrong or you know some of those things that SAG after provides are so wonderful because I mean yeah I found my in my career I have found myself in situations and stuff where I’m like okay there’s no protections here like I literally you know I mean take your pick it’s like okay well that was sexual harassment and there’s nothing to do about that or oh there and I don’t mean to be flip about that I’m just there’s there’s things where it’s like oh okay even pay rates and getting paid and just some of those things where it’s like this this is legit work that we are doing as actors where’s my check you know some things like that and I don’t know that I don’t know that I even had in my mind even walking through and experiencing some of those things it’s like oh right right I don’t know if you had worked at all in indie film at all before you joined was that a thing for you
Ilyssa: so before I joined and and it’s you know people have to remember nobody’s born union right so you have to you know you come into the world and there’s this non-union and I think we you might see it in you know our education growing up in the theater or in the arts what you’re doing and you do it because you become passionate about it it becomes emotional and you find a need to be a storyteller so you go through school and you experience certain things and you’re like okay well I fell off of that scaffolding that’s normal who am I going to tell about that you know and then you go to college and they they’re asking you to do certain things you’re like yeah to get my degree if you go to school for theater or you know whatever you do it as an extracurricular okay that’s I’m not getting paid and that’s my the dues you pay for the degree and then you get out into the real world and you need the experience or expertise to navigate the business it’s one of the things about education I’m actually talking to a university later today and they they teach the business of acting but not a lot of schools talk about the business or why you know what casting is like or what it’s like to be on a set or any of those things that help you move through a professional environment but then you’re trying to figure out how to be a professional and a union our union for sure sets an area standard basically uh if I’m making x somebody who’s non-union should try to make that much and so you could see where they go down but here’s the standard here’s the floor so when I did I was I worked in non-union in the Chicago area for about five years I think before I joined with the aspiration of always joining and always being a professional get paid like a professional having no idea what I had to do to get into the union but realizing as you’re saying if I’m thinking about it I never asked about commission never asked about when I was gonna get paid or you know I would get you’re gonna get paid this is what the the job is traveling myself without reimbursement bringing my own wardrobe you know like really trying to figure it out on my own and then when I did join the union and I swear to God I will never forget this when I finally got a franchised agent and I booked a gig and I got a check I fell on the floor crying because I had been working you know day jobs yeah and I’m like you’re paying me for doing something I love and so now I’m on the way opposite side where yeah you should get paid for your exposure your talent you know your time yes and when I did do or I have done some of our low budget independent type of films I just appreciate so much how because you can some of the contracts have mixed casts the contract covers everybody so I really enjoy when okay everybody lunch it’s like oh even a person who’s not a member of this union is is experiencing what it is to be in a in in a workplace environment where you’re not abused
Paul: so I think yeah that reminds me of an experience I had where it was an indeed it was a it was it was it was like what you’re talking about it was a mixed cast and uh I was I overheard the crew and I don’t believe the crew was union because of some of the commentary that they were making but they were saying like they were being pushed so hard and they literally it was because I was shooting that day they were like oh we can’t we can’t cut we can’t call everybody in this early tomorrow and one of the crew members was like well thank god like finally like I can get a little bit of sleep and they’re like oh wait oh it’s because Paul’s union he can’t be you can’t call them in that soon and that was when it clicked in my head I was like ding ding ding like the safety piece is so huge
Ilyssa: like huge huge especially today right like that’s my not like I’m a silver linings person like gosh but excuse me when we first entered into this pandemic and we came up with the back torque and the return to work protocols with management in tv theatrical as well as in commercials it does go also to the independent films you know everybody wanted to be safe and I thought to myself you know this will end let’s not forget the safety features let’s not forget I remember doing a film actually in Michigan and it was it was a big film and I don’t even know if I’d ever been on a film set that big yet and I was I had to fall to the floor simply fall to my knees and I never thought about asking for any help by by the time somebody from a wardrobe or somebody walked up and said are you okay? do you need a knee pad? I didn’t even think to ask, and my knee was bloody. Oh because historically I think ilyssa fradin on the actor in high school and college and non-union was like you just do the work and nobody’s there to help you and this person was like here’s a knee pad put it under your pant I was like oh I can do that I can ask to be protected and so you learn to it’s not even advocating for yourself but that is it feels like it because you’re alone right you’re the only actor but right and not to be demanding but to at least say hey listen that I’m hurting myself in this position is there a way that I can make myself feel safer they’d be like oh my gosh for sure just like that crew like we should be taking a break like isn’t that do you guys ever I mean I know crew first on on when you’re going and to take a break for lunch right yep I don’t know if somebody lost that thread but I’m always like no no no no crew first they’re always like no no no no you know I’m like crew first they’ve been here a lot longer than me yeah it’s a respect thing it’s it’s it’s the right thing to do yeah for any worker and hopefully what we establish as a professional union will affect an impact in a positive way in the non-union and I honestly I know in the beginning of the pandemic I people are going on sets non-union sets without any protocols without any ppe and you’re like oh that’s just a basic thing just basic and now I think people are kind of catching up to it and and having safer environments absolutely
Paul: there’s something that you mentioned too that I kind of wanted to just jump back on was that note about like residuals and commissions and money and all that stuff when I was talking to our rep in Chicago he I specifically was just mentioning a film project that I had worked on and they were they were presenting you know me and my agent with a day rate and I was like you know this doesn’t really work for me very well and they wound up doing a much bigger rate and I ended up making a lot a lot more money and they and they the production was fine with it which was really nice but it was one of those things where I just I know in the back my head I was like gosh I worked on so many film projects and didn’t get compensated well for it and it’s so nice to get compensated like when you said you fell down on your knees and were like oh like that’s so yeah
Ilyssa: yeah I think that uh there is a culture and I mean I definitely have grown up in this uh where we were afraid to say no because we think people will then not like us and so you know it’s really about especially in this isolated environment I mean look at you you’ve got this gorgeous background like you know you you’ve invested yourself you can we’re not going into casting facilities we’re not going into maybe your agents have a casting room or whatever to record and we’re investing our our money we’ve always invested our money I mean there were days when we had to have you know updated headshots and mailing them and if you were in voiceover you had you know a cassette or a cd and so there’s always a cost to doing this business and we accept that we never say no which is you have to know when to say no and so you also need to know when to maybe ask like hey if is can I get x is it okay can we go back can we counter and it seems like not pretentious but maybe something maybe it’s a Midwestern thing I don’t know we’re just the humility of like you know what I mean like asking for too much do you think maybe you could ask for a bigger I don’t know what it is
Paul: (sarcasticly) possibly could we do it this way because you know I have a funeral
Ilyssa: (laughs) like my you know like yeah right could we move the date like can we startle can I come in a little later and my child needs daycare like and just saying hey I can’t do it at that time I could do it at this time cool yeah yeah same thing with uh a rate that’s negotiable and of course in the union you negotiate up you don’t you know you don’t ever say I’ll take less you say I need let’s talk more you know which is different than non-union especially for uh you know someone with experience I mean you’re not this is not your first rodeo on this is not your first time on set though like you you know what you’re doing yeah that’s worth something I think it isn’t it and I’m very I want to say like I’m cognizant of the fact that in low budget productions so in the independent film world where you’re doing you know a spa agreement or a low budget modified that those are those are subs you could go from a no budget like a micro budget to a big up to two million right and so that’s just somebody’s money it’s on a lot of times it’s on somebody’s credit card and so it’s I’m not gonna I’m going to walk in and be a part of that team like an ensemble like in theater I’m going to be part of that team I’m not going to ask for something that if nobody else is getting paid and I’m the only one getting paid right I’m really feeling I want to I came in to do the same job that I would do on a network or studio set right but I will never go on a set where everybody else is getting paid and they’ll be like yeah we’re not paying you that’s what I can’t get. People I don’t understand when people take something for nothing and don’t ask is everybody else getting paid
Paul: yes yes yes! That’s resonating for me in such a big way. There was a film that I that happened they were bringing in actors from from I believe it was either la or new york and I was like no I know that you’re paying them really well and you’re not gonna pay me well. Okay. And I was like no I’m not interested and the director called me like and he was mad and I was like uh wow wow and I didn’t handle it well I should have been like just talk to my agent but I got really mad at him too and I didn’t handle that well but neither did he so I don’t know
Ilyssa: but you learned it’s a learning experience right
Paul: yeah yeah I want to be very cognizant aware of your time by the way I know that you have
Ilyssa: oh thanks
Paul: you have to get out as well so I do want to just kind of wind this down and wrap it down I really appreciate your input Ilyssa and like I have a little fun piece that I wanted to do with you as well it has nothing to do with anything it’s just like a lightning round of silly questions okay if you’re game for that
Ilyssa: okay we’ll see
Paul: yeah yeah they’re silly and I think that I think what’s fun about these is either think about him super hard or don’t think about him at all. Are you ready
Ilyssa: okay yeah
Paul: if animals could talk which animal would be the rudest?
Ilyssa: the rudest animal? Probably a city squirrel
Paul: Name two of the seven dwarfs
Ilyssa: oh I really they’re I can’t tell you which ones I like I mean I love them all but probably there’s just I love Sleepy and Dopey but I should like Happy and Grumpy right but it’s Sleepy and Dopey I think they’re adorable
Paul: I love that. Dark chocolate or milk chocolate?
Ilyssa: oh dark dark chocolate
Paul: and last last little lightning round question
your weapon of choice in a zombie apocalypse?
Ilyssa: oh I it can’t be a conscientious objector to that I can’t just my weapon of choice
Paul: that actually is an answer that is an answer
Ilyssa: they can’t change this objection yeah I just would like to like I hate I hate like weapons freak me out like even like stage combat makes me cry so I’m gonna say I’m gonna be uh I’ll work in I’ll work behind the scenes like I do in the union and you can go fight the zombie apocalypse
Paul: yes. I totally I do I feel like I have a bazillion questions and I think I’ll I’ll reach out to you again so but in the interest of time I am going to say goodbye and thank you so much.
Ilyssa: it was my pleasure Paul I’m so glad it finally worked out that we could connect so thank you for being patient in your time and I appreciate it.
Paul: thank you so much Ilyssa I really enjoyed the conversation and appreciate your insights and input.
If anyone wants to find out more information about Ilyssa you can find her online at Ilyssafradin.com and I’ll spell that for you it’s www.I l y s s a f r a d I n so Ilyssafradin.com
for more information about SAG-AFTRA you can also log on to their website which is SAGafra.org and as always you can find me online as well at www.iamPaulCram.com
thanks everyone for listening and I hope we keep being kinder kind to each other thank you
