Humongous hazel eyes. That’s what I immediately notice when AJ Jacob’s smiling face appears on my laptop screen. Gotta appreciate technology connecting us; we are 1,192 miles apart, me in Minnesota and AJ in New York City.
If you didn’t already know it: A.J. Jacobs is an author, journalist, lecturer and human guinea pig. He’s written multiple New York Times bestsellers that combine memoir, science, humor and a dash of self-help.
We’re all set to chat about his work as an author, with an emphasis on his 2008 best-seller The Year of Living Biblically: One Man’s Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible which my book club, Gay Men-Who-Read, just finished. And being that I don’t know if my sense of humor would be understood — I refrain from asking him if he is related to the Disney character Bambi with eyes-so-big. And instead share the list of what we will be covering in our 20 minute conversation. He’s gracious, nods his head, and we dive in.
You can learn more about AJ on his website: AJJacobs.com
Transcript
Paul Cram: Hey everyone, i’m Paul Cram. My book club recently read The Year of Living Biblically, One Man’s Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible and I’m really happy to be able to chat today with the author AJ Jacobs.
AJ Jacobs: But I love the idea of method acting, and I have had people refer to this genre as method writing. Which I love. Just getting really into a mindset. And I think that happened in The Year of Living Biblically.
Paul: From the best-selling author of The Know-It-All comes a fascinating and timely exploration of religion in the Bible. Raised in a secular family but increasingly interested in the relevance of faith in our modern world, AJ Jacobs decides to dive in head first and attempt to obey the Bible as literally as possible for one full year. The book is a really fun read I’m excited to just kind of dive in and have you all hear what AJ and I discussed. We cover a little bit of a gamut of of topics, diving into some of the work he has coming up as well as The Year of Living Biblically. Here we go.
The first thing that i wanted to say is i noticed that you no longer have a beard and long hair. I believe this book was released in 2008, is that correct?
AJ: That sounds right yeah, simply go now a while ago um and so and i did shave yes i shaved my beard the bible says you cannot shave the corners of your beard and i didn’t know where the corners were so i just let the whole thing grow but my wife was not a fan not a fan so in the end it came off and it remains off.
Paul: I’m single, so I just sort of have the impression that what wives want they generally tend to get.
AJ: Well yes uh it certainly is it’s one strategy.
Paul: One among many. So something that i wanted to ask you, and i’m really curious about is, you wrote this in 2018 and right now it’s kind of the end of 2021, since that time has anything that you did during that year stuck? Like was there any habits or any rituals or things like that that kind of stuck with you and you still continue to do?
AJ: Oh yeah! Absolutely. And i love that question. You know as i mentioned a lot I stopped doing so I shaved the beard, I stopped stoning adulterers; and by the way when I stoned I used very small stones, like pebbles. So I didn’t actually hurt anyone. There were many takeaways that still affect me today. One of the big, perhaps the biggest, is the whole idea of gratitude – which is huge in the bible. Saying thanks, I got very into that, and in fact it inspired my most recent book which was all about gratitude. I took my morning cup of coffee and I thanked a thousand people who had anything to do with the making of it. So the farmer or the barista or the truck driver.
Paul: That is a very biblical thing I think to do. Go over and thank people.
AJ: So that was just one. I can give you one more if you want or we…
Paul: Please do please do
AJ: One of my spiritual advisors had an interesting way to look at religion which is that it’s it’s the three b’s: belief, belonging, and behavior. So belief in God or supernatural, and belonging to a community, and behavior. Either behaving in an ethical manner or or following the rituals that this community has. So I’m more like two-out-of-three. I’m still not a believer but I do think that the community can be amazing and I belong to a synagogue which holds some lovely events. And the rituals, the behavior, I do love a good Seder. I’m, as you know, I’m Jewish. So I love a good Seder with my family and you know what? We do the more, uh you know, the quick version. The express version.
Paul: You reference in your book, I love the turn of phrase, and i’m going to probably totally forget it, so you can correct me if you remember it too, but you’re…
AJ: I think i know… oh, oh i know what you mean, yes! The italian. I’m jewish in the same way the Olive Garden is Italian. Yes. No offense to the Olive Garden, but you know it’s a very watered down version. And i’m okay with that. I am okay with the Olive Garden, they have great breadsticks. I mean that was another one of the lessons. I guess was the cherry picking. It’s okay. Cherry picking has a very bad connotation, you know you’re just cherry-picking the parts of religion or the Bible that you like. But listen, if you choose the right cherries, then that’s great! Why wouldn’t you want to pick the delicious berries and leave the sour ones? You know what? I want to pick the ones about compassion and being with family and helping others, but the ones about you know, gay people being an abomination, or women not being allowed to talk in church… those cherries i am happy to leave on the side.
Paul: I have to agree. My book club, it’s all gay men, and as we were reading this we were just like- hmm that’s very interesting. So some of those pieces came up in conversation. Umm. Something that I really liked in here, I’m going to show a picture because it’s a great picture. When this was was written you and your wife were pregnant with twins, and I thought that there was something really interesting with the journey of this book, and then fatherhood, and just thought that you kind of you did a really nice job of weaving that that into what you were what was going on with what you were doing with the Bible. Do you think or in that experience, like i feel like a lot of times people find religion when they become a parent. At least a lot of my friends do. Did that happen with you at all in any way shape or form in influencing the book?
AJ: That’s a great question. Well first of all, the first rule in the Bible that God gives to humans is be fruitful and multiply. That is literally chronologically the first, so I was trying to follow that rule by having kids. So I actually had kids during that, my twin boys, and yeah it’s certainly as I say I’m still not a believer but i think the idea of morality and community is really important and so I was searching for something. What should i pass on to my kids? There’s some interesting thoughts in the Bible, that God is a metaphor for the parent, so God treats humans like parents should treat kids, and in the bible it’s an interesting mix of sort of sternness and compassion or what they call mercy and justice. So he can be tough. You know, that old testament God, you know he smites people. He is not a softy, but then he can be incredibly forgiving. So it’s an interesting way to think about parenthood. I think my wife would tell you that I am way too much on the forgiveness side. That I am a softy or spineless or whatever you want to call it. Too easy. So maybe I need to get some more smiting going, but it is an interesting framework for you. You got to have both sides.
Paul: Well and i as you’re saying that, i’m chuckling with you. A little bit because of what you’re saying, but also I’m remembering your wife. When I belly laughed as I was reading your book. Because of the fact that your wife sat on like every chair in the house because of the unclean aspect found in the Bible. So your wife’s sense of humor in that was great.
AJ: Well yeah, she is. I will tell her, she’ll be very happy to hear that. So yeah she definitely is, and for those who haven’t read the book the context is that the Bible says you cannot touch women when they’re menstruating; but it goes further, it says that if a menstruating woman sits in a seat the seat becomes unclean. And my wife thought that was kind of sexist and offensive. So she sat in every seat in the apartment so that I’d have to stand for the year. Sort of a way to get back at me, and it worked.
Paul: I love it. I think it’s great. I am curious, this is probably more of a question for her, but I see a theme throughout your work in The Year of Living Biblically, and in some of the work that you’re talking about. I saw a reference to you being sort of a human guinea pig.
AJ: Yeah I like that phrase I’m happy with it.
Paul: What is your… I think may be answering my own question, because there’s just something within that where these journeys that you’re putting yourself through as a writer, and things like that. It’s very. Like I’m an actor. Have you ever heard of “method acting” where you live it? Have you ever done that?
AJ: No. I mean, I’ve been really interested in acting. I was in a high school play. But I love the idea of method acting, and I have had people refer to this genre as “method writing.” Which I love. Yeah, just getting really into a mindset. And i think that happened in The Year of Living Biblically in a big way. So, you know, as I say, you know I was not a believer. But if you act in a way, like if you pray to God for seven times a day, then you’re eventually gonna have some effect on your mind. So at points I was a believer during this experiment. It was really interesting to see how behavior affects your thoughts. But yeah I think method living, for lack of better phrase, I think there’s something to it. I think we should all try to experiment more with our lives and it doesn’t have to be, you know, growing the huge beard, but just trying new things, or trying not to gossip. That’s sort of a method thing to do. Like take a week and see what happens, if you don’t say anything negative about other people and how that affects you.
Paul: I can’t disagree. When you’re saying that too, I’m thinking of all the people, like my friends. And I’m sure you ran into this, I think you mentioned it a little bit, but that change in behavior is usually very obvious to others that are interacting with you a lot. So I am super curious too, because I think your personality and stuff comes through so much in all of this. Have you ever taken a Myers-Brigg test from high school? You know those personaly tests?
AJ: Yeah, sure. That is an interesting question. I never have. Actually i’ve thought about it a lot. I’ve never taken it but but I think I know that one of the categories is extrovert and introvert.
Paul: Yes.
AJ: Yes, and i think I’m an interesting case. I think it’s more common than people acknowledge, I think I am extrovert-fluid, like gender fluid. Like I can be there. I think I might have been born introverted, but I also believe that there are a lot of benefits to extroversion, so a lot of times I will force myself to be extroverted and go over and introduce myself to people even though it’s awkward and and feels like slightly painful because I know that meeting new people and getting new ideas is in the long run going to make me happier. So I feel I’ve forced myself to be an extrovert, and it’s in many ways a good thing.
Paul: I was just going to say, so you’re kind of saying that you’re “normal,” or what you generally are, is a little bit more introverted. But I’m looking through this book and I’m like– you’re walking around New York with a beard down to here, and your hair, and the things that you were doing are so attention-gathering! So yeah, I’m glad that you say that you’re a little bit, maybe not a complete extrovert. I would have guessed that you were 100 percent extrovert.
AJ: No. But yeah, as I say I work at it. And like you said, yeah. It was an experiment in particular. I looked so strange that it was really inviting attention. Which had his pros and cons you know. And part of me loved it. I was like, you know, I would turn my head really quickly and I would catch people just staring at me, and it was fascinating because it was like — this must be what it’s like to be Brad Pitt. You know people are just staring at you all the time.
Paul: Yeah?
AJ: Yes. But it was also, you know, so there was an awkwardness, but then excitement to it. Yeah. I don’t try to attract attention that way anymore. But I do like meeting new people who are different than me, and learning.
Paul: Which shines through with you. I appreciate that. I do always love to ask too, like is there any… uh like let’s say because I know the people that listen to my podcast, the audience is largely creatives: actors, directors, writers. If there was somebody that was a writer, what would you say to them if they were like “I want to do that.” How did you word it? I want to do method writing. Suggestions?
AJ: I would say, well I don’t know how original or exciting these these pieces of advice are, but one is just write every day. And again almost forcing yourself. There’s a kind of a theme. Like even if you don’t feel like writing, forcing yourself to write. I spend 15 minutes every morning brainstorming. I try to turn off all electronics and just just sit with myself. And I could have things around my desk to help me, help inspire me, like you know whatever magazines or books or or toys or whatever. But I do like to make an appointment just to brainstorm, and it could be that I’m brainstorming article ideas, or book ideas, but it could just be sort of free association. I just believe that my brain is is like a muscle and the creativity has muscle-like qualities, and that the more you use it the better you become.
Paul: I couldn’t have said a better segue into what I’d like to talk about next. Because I believe you have a book coming out next month?
AJ: I do. In the spring. I have one coming out.
Paul: Yes, thank you! And it is called The Puzzler right? One Man’s Quest to Solve the Most Baffling Puzzles Ever from Crosswords to Jigsaws to the Meaning of Life.
AJ: Exactly. Are you a puzzle fan at all?
Paul: I think I’m not. I love board games but I don’t know about puzzles. My brother does Sudoku. Which I think you tackle that in your book?
AJ: Correct. I do have a chapter on Sudoku. But games are basically two-person puzzles or three-person puzzles. So yeah. And as you said this is a good segue because it is for me puzzles are just a great way to train yourself to think and problem solve and be creative and that’s what one of the reasons I love them.
Paul: Have you always been that way with puzzles?
AJ: This has been awesome. It has been a lifelong nerd-interest of mine. You know as a kid I was very into mazes, and mostly I’m a word puzzle person because, you know, i guess that’s where my mind is, uh, where the strengths lie. But I have chapters on all sorts of logic and physical puzzles. Like jigsaw puzzles, which i wasn’t that into before, but i ended up going to the World Jigsaw Puzzle Championship and competing as team USA and that was a blast. We were terrible. We lost. But we did have a good time.
Paul: That’s awesome. So I have one more question for you.
AJ: Of course.
Paul: And then a little lightning round of three questions that are kind of fun, but before i do the lightning round questions to kind of wrap everything, are there any like misconceptions about you and your work that you commonly run across that you wish you could just dispel?
AJ: Hmm. I don’t know. That’s a good question. I would say, you know you get labeled. Different books themselves have labels. So there’s memoir, non-fiction, humor. So I don’t love the humor label for two reasons. One: I mean I do try to make jokes and i try to be entertaining. But first of all, I feel that if you… It’s like when you, before you say a joke, you say “oh i’ve got the funniest joke ever” and then you tell it, and it’s like “yeah that’s just an all right joke.” So that label of humor sort of raises expectations. And then the other reason I don’t love the humor label is I am trying to be entertaining, as i said, but I am also trying to tackle the really big questions in life that fascinate me. So you know I’m not trying to just make jokes. So I guess that would be it. But it doesn’t really bother me that much one way or the other.
Paul: No that makes sense, that makes sense. Thank you. I’m just thinking here, I’m relating it to me, your answer AJ, andyeah as an actor sometimes I’m like “don’t pigeonhole me”
AJ: yeah exactly.
Paul: Like it’s the whole point of being an actor. So are you ready for these lightning round questions? I’ll throw them at you, and you answer them as quick as you can. All right, question number one, or wait there’s four questions. I always say three. Anyways, what sport would be the funniest to add a mandatory amount of alcohol to?
AJ: Oh that’s good. Well i don’t know if it’d be funny, but gymnastics would be interesting. It’d be kind of terrible.
Paul: I like where your head goes. That’s great. Second question. What’s the most useful invention of all time?
AJ: Hmm… I like that question. How about, or I’m not gonna think, I’m just gonna say, I mean the obvious would be the wheel or fire. But I can’t be that quite as obvious as that. I would say, what about, uh, oh I know. I’m failing I’m looking…
Paul: No you’re not. You’re good. You’re good with the Wheel or Fire actually. Both are pretty good. I wouldn’t even think of that.
AJ: Well they’re pretty good. How about caps to um bottles? Because I feel that has changed my life in a good way. Like when I go to bed I used to have a glass beside my bed and it spilled like half the time, now I put a little cap on it, never spills now.
Paul: You put a lid on it? Oh my gosh that’s fun!
AJ: Yeah.
Paul: Do you like pineapple on your pizza?
AJ: I do not, but my son does, and so I support him. I’m an ally.
Paul: Just one or both?
AJ: One. Just the oldest son is a big fan of pineapple pizza. We actually went to Hawaii on a vacation once and he ordered it and you could tell they were very annoyed because they don’t want to be associated with Hawaiian pizza in Hawaii. But I support him.
Paul: That’s awesome. Last and final fun question. What fictional character do you think your friends or wife would say that you are most like?
AJ: Oh well that’s interesting. Well they did make a fictional sitcom out of The Year of Living Biblically. It was not my favorite. Wonderful people who put it on, but just somewhere along the line CBS dumbed it down, so it’s unwatchable. So don’t try that. It came out like three years ago and i think that they have you know put it somewhere. So i would say that would be the closest.
Paul: Well i really do appreciate you taking the time AJ you’ve taken to chat with me a little bit about your book and your writing and what you have coming up. This has been delightful.
AJ: My pleasure. And thank you for recommending it to your book club and thank you for having me on your podcast.
Paul: For anyone that’s listening that wants to find out more about um aj and his books and writing um i think the best way to go about it is to go to ajacobs.com find out what he’s got going on um and yeah if anybody wants to know anything more about myself you can go to www.iampaulcram.com. Thanks everyone
